Much ado about scripting, Linux & Eclipse: card subject to change
A quick list of some recent EMF releases:
Also, here's a few EMF-related releases out last month:
Did I miss anything? Let me know!
In: eclipse, emf, europa, maintenance, sdo
I recently graffiti'd the Eclipse Planning Counncil Agenda with my $0.02 because I saw something I felt was incorrect. Not being one to posture and postulate wildly w/o facts to back myself up, I also created this supporting document: EMF 2.3 Plan History.
Why? Because on a recent blog entry, Bjorn brought up some excellent suggestions about having a good communication strategy so that your consuming teams (users, developers) can properly be made aware of lumps in the gravy.
At first I was annoyed, because I thought he was throwing rocks at EMF. But because I know we did damn near everything but sending up smoke signals to get the message out, I'd like to instead underscore all the places you can document and announce your plans to help grow your community:
We have no favourite channel. We use them all. Sure, it's a lot of work and could be construed as overkill, but IMHO it's worth the cost because it shows project maturity and respect for the people who use your code. Need a more instant-gratification or cost-benefits-analysis rationalization than the warm-fuzzy-feelings one? How about free testing? Tell people about your planned changes and they can adapt faster -- and give you feedback sooner.
Oh, well, time to crank up some Billy Talent and let the weekend begin.
Europa Fall Maintenance is out today, so in tribute...
(Ctrl-) Space Down
Hey Eclipse you know you drive me crazy.
Ctrl-3 puts the rhythm in my hand.
Still I'll never understand how you can do so much
Plugins, features and such
Install Europa bundles from a mirror
Tell yourself it's so gonna rock your world again
You fire it up and then you swear a little
Do you feel like a geek
When you push its buttons?
Do you feel better now Ctrl-Space'ing a ton?
Well I'll tell you my friend no way this world's going to end
IDEs crumble down, they're eclipsed by this one
A pebble in the water makes a ripple effect
Every action in this world will bear a consequence
If you code by hand forever you will surely drown
I see what's goin' down.
Don't be a fool and use vi, emacs or notepad,
Startin' from scratch again,
Heed my lecture
Do you feel like a geek
When you push its buttons?
Do you feel better now Ctrl-Space'ing a ton?
Well I'll tell you my friend no way this world's going to end
IDEs crumble down, they're eclipsed by this one
In June '08 when we've all had enough,
Time for the Gany train!
[x2]
Do you feel like a geek
When you push its buttons?
Do you feel better now Ctrl-Space'ing a ton?
Well I'll tell you my friend no way this world's going to end
IDEs crumble down, they're eclipsed by this one
Downloadin' the code, she said, 'The mother lode!'
She said, I've finally found the best!
[x2]
Red Jumpsuit Aparatus - Face Down
10,000 Hits
Europa!
Europa!
One more download, yay! I know what I want
And my want will be an upgrade all right, an upgrade all right
Just another day when all that I want
Will mark me as an Eclipser tonight, an Eclipse geek tonight, yeah
[Chorus]
Jupiter's moons that can block out the Sun
If this disturbs you then walk away
You will remember: use -vmargs and -vm
10,000 Googlin' away!
Plug-ins un-restrained, dead on the mark
Is what we will deliver tonight, deliver tonight
"Features suck," they say, "but Update finally works!"
With even plugins tonight? Yes, even plugins tonight. Yeah!
[Chorus]
We are the ones that will open your mind
Leave the weak and the NetBeans behind
[x4]
[Chorus]
10,000 Googlin' away! 10,000 reqs per half-day!
In: bugzilla, eclipse, europa, features, humour, maintenance, music, update manager
I was bloggin' when I wrote this
Forgive me if it goes astray
But when I woke up this mornin'
Coulda sworn it was Bugzilla Day
My IDE was purple,
There were people codin' everywhere
Tryin' to help out the commun'ty
Eclipse is you and we all care
They say two thousand zero, zero, party over,
Oops, out of time!
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's bug 1999 (99)!
My code was buildin' when I wrote this
Don't sue me if it tends to crash
But life is just a testcase, and heap space ain't meant to last
Bugs are all around us, my mind says prepare to fight
So if they've gotta die so I'm gonna fire up my debugger tonight
Yeah, they say two thousand zero, zero, party over,
Oops, out of time!
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's bug 1999 (99)!
* Enhanced Prince Lyrics
I've seen some kvetching lately in #eclipse that people (Eclipse users/customers) open bugs which never get resolved. Also, last night I saw an article from earlier this year discussing whether or not Vista would be fit for purpose, which spawned further kvetching about Microsoft and IBM and how much/little support there is from large organizations with large customer bases.
That said, let me present a real life example I just went through of how much worse life would be in OSS if we, the developers, treated our customers (the world at large) as if we were a monopoly with nothing to gain from helping you out, with an insipid insistence in NOT working together as a community.
Without further ado, I give you ... reporting a bug to Rogers Communications (unabridged).
Original Message Follows: ------------------------ name: Nick Boldt emailId: nickboldt replyEmail: nickboldt@gmail.com issue: account subcategory: other problemdescription: Logging in using Firefox or Konqueror browser (which normally works), I periodically get this error: Microsoft VBScript compilation error '800a03e9' Out of memory /web_auth/verifpwd.asp, line 0 Given you're running a Microsoft server -- maybe it's in need of a reboot? ;-)
Dear Nick Boldt,Thank you for your email.
We understand your concern with this issue.
Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet technical support representatives are qualified to diagnose and troubleshoot issues relating directly to our client software. We will therefore not be able to assist you with this matter, as it is beyond the scope of our support parameters.
For assistance regarding peripheral devices and other software products, we recommend contacting the vendor of the software in question. We apologize for any inconvenience.
If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service, please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.
Regards,
name removed
There's nothing more annoying that people who tell you to solve your problem by repeating what you've already done (namely, to contact the software vendor, who in this case is in fact Rogers).
Guys, this is either one of two problems:a) your webserver has a memory leak
b) your website relies on activeX controls and therefore doesn't (consistently) work with anything but Internet Explorer
In either case, it has nothing to do with my "client software" -- it's a website/webserver problem.
Please escalate this to your webmaster for review.
Cheers,
Nick
Granted, I was wrong about what the problem here was, but that's why I was suggesting escalation. Besides, I don't do ASP anymore.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us, we appreciate your use of online customer service.We would be more that happy to assist you with your concerns.
We appreciate hearing from our customers and thank you for your comments and feedback. However, please note that the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed cable internet service, currently supports only Internet Explorer and the Rogers Yahoo! browser. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Please let us know if we may be of further assistance to you.
If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service, please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.
Regards,
name removed
I think the point you're (once again) missing is that it's not the browser (client) that's the problem but the website/webserver (server). Since this problem is intermittent and happens with multiple different browsers, I'm reasonably certain it's not a browser issue.Further, since VBScript compilation occurs ON THE SERVER, not in the client browser (we're not talking about Javascript or another client-side scripting language, but a server-side one), and since my computer (and thus browsers) have ample memory to load other websites (2G of RAM and a 2G swap) an "Out of memory" error must be caused by a problem ON THE SERVER.
A quick Google search confirms that this is a known problem in VBScript, with an available workaround provided by Microsoft:
Microsoft VBScript compilation error 800a03e9 Out of memory
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/174634That said, if you don't feel this issue needs to be escalated to your web server support staff for review, or that it's perfectly reasonable to expect that at least once a day your website won't let customers sign in (it worked fine a moment ago but not when I first filed this bug report), then by all means, please send me another FOAD "we only support MSIE" note. After all, it's much more fun (and costly for you!) for me to call your support staff instead of using the website for self-service every time it won't let me log in.
Yours,
Nick
Dear Nick Boldt,Thank you for your email.
We sympathize with your situation.
Please provide further information on the nature of the problem you are experiencing and we will be happy to assist you in any way we can. Information such as error messages or codes you receive may be helpful in determining the source of the problem.
Please include when you are recieiving the error message as well, including the full URL of the site and any other information you can provide about it, may be useful as well.
If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service, please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.
Regards,
name removed
Fine, if you need me to do your job for you, I will.Steps to reproduce:
1) Go to http://www.shoprogers.com/homeen.asp?CustomerType=Consumer&Language=En
2) Enter username / password; check box for 'Rember my username'; click go or hit enter
3) Marvel at the following error which tends to occur at random intervals but particularly the second or third time I try to log in using the same browser session:
Microsoft VBScript compilation error \'800a03e9\'
Out of memory
/web_auth/verifpwd.asp, line 0
4) Per advice in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/174634, fix this bug.
5) Send me a $50 account credit for helping you fix your website. (Hey, I can dream.)
Cheers,
Nick
Dear Nick Boldt,Thank you for taking the time to write to us, we appreciate your use of online customer service.
We would be more that happy to assist you with your concerns.
Although we thank you for your input regarding the Corporate Website, for further issues related to the Customer Service feature, we recommend contacting the support number 1-877-343-5745. They may then escalate such matters to the network administrators, who manage the server.
Please note that the email support team, addresses issues related to the various Rogers Cable services (such as Hi-Speed cable internet, Home Phone, Digital Cable TV, etc.).
If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service, please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.
Regards,
name removed
1. It's not the Corporate Website, it's the public customer website. I'm not a corporate user, I'm just one of your many regular customers. I would have thought that would be obious from the URL: http://www.shoprogers.com/homeen.asp?CustomerType=Consumer&Language=En -- note the "CustomerType=Consumer" part.2. Why should I have to report this issue a second time to yet another unsympathetic ear when you can just forward this email chain to the appropriate people for resolution? Not only do you need me to document (twice) the problem, but you now want me to report it twice as well? Are your webmaster(s) so afraid of email that they need a buffer of phone-answering lackeys around them to protect them from valid, documented, and solvable bug reports?
3. If your staff "addresses issues related to the various Rogers Cable services", then why can't you deal with issues related to me checking my Rogers bill online -- namely, the fact that about half the time I try to log in, I get the aforementioned error? Shouldn't supporting the website on which my bills reside be part of supporting Rogers Cable services?
Thanks,
Nick
Dear Nick,Thank you for contacting us again, we appreciate the support you are providing us.
I have read the history behind your e-mail requests along with your current e-mail. First I would like to mention that the Rogers corporate web site is www.rogers.com. I'm sorry if that information was confusing to you.
Second, my question to you is why are you logging in 2-3 times in the same session? (from e-mail sent 7/11) You only need to log on once to do all your maintenance, bill viewing and reviewing of your account. This may be the root cause of the problem.
Third, you need to call the staff in our Internet support office. We are not qualified to help you. We do not do any technical troubleshooting via e-mail. Please understand that we are not equipped with this type of knowledge, we answer a limited range of questions about billing, sales, general inquiries. Please call 1-888-288-4663, they are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and would be very happy and able to help you.
Thank you for contacting us, we hope that this issue will be resolved by our technicians.
Sincerely,
name removed
So, the moral here is that even when you provide steps to reproduce, solve the already-documented problem (via Google and the Microsoft KB), and request multiple times that they simply forward the email chain to someone who can address it, the oh-so-diligent lackeys at Rogers' email support desk refuse to help while claiming they're "happy to assist." Yeah, right.
Contrast that with the 1000s of bugs closed this year for Europa, and I'm sure you'll agree Open Source is much better than dealing with the close-source, closed-process, closed-access monopolies. Not only do we have several documented way to ask for support (bugzilla, newsgroups, mailing lists, IRC), but we actually use them, and the projects & member companies share information and collaborate to solve issues. Oh, and all this without having to pay $100+/mo for "service."
Really, what more could you want?
With Europa out of the way (well, mostly), it was time to take a week off (give or take a few bugs and some IRC lurking), catch up on my TV viewing, do some paddling with my new kayak over at Rouge Beach, cycle a few dozen kms on my bike, play with my dogs and take in a few shows, including Transformers (the new Michael Bay whatsit at the Docks drive-in, thankfully free courtesy of the folks at Chevrolet), Vida, We Will Rock You, and a second helping of Evil Dead: The Musical (because you just HAVE to see it more than once).
Groovy.
Along with the rest of Europa, EMF 2.3 was released yesterday. Additionally, three new components, Model Query, Model Transaction, and Validation Framework (collectively "EMF-QTV") have graduated from EMFT and published their 1.1 releases.
What's new in the EMF project this year? See below.
Thanks to the whole EMF team for a great release and for making my life interesting, to say the least. Thanks also to all those who helped by providing ideas, suggestions, bug reports (especially those with patches & JUnits!), wiki documentation, FAQ entries & articles.
No, seriously, I don't test for schwag, or for the cookie, though some muppets do. I test because I like to work on and with tools, sites, projects, frameworks... that just work, without jumping through hoops or needing to recite black magic incantations. (Which doesn't mean I won't accept schwag if people want to send it to me. So far the best schwag-like mail I've gotten has been a clown nose from Kim, but that's another story.)
Anyway, inspired by Ian's bad experiences today with Europa, I thought I'd try to reproduce them. I couldn't, but I got something IMHO worse. While there's ways to work around the problems I hit, the issue here is Newbie Usability. I've been hacking w/ Eclipse for 4 years. The point of Europa is to be easy to use for the first-timers, who don't know about things like the eclipse.ini file (I've never looked at that file until today) or any/all of the OSGi startup flags you can use.
So, to synthesize the Newbie experience further, I googled for "-Dosgi" and searched the Eclipse wiki, but the best I could find is passing mention of these flags in some 145 Eclipse bugs. Another usability issue, IMHO -- insufficiently quick-findable documentation.
Oh, wait, I think (while still wearing the Newbie hat), what about help.eclipse.org? Sure enough, it's documented as Eclipse runtime options. OK, that's cool, and that also means if I installed the SDK I have those docs in my Europa install, but if the problem is starting Europa in the first place, I still have to go hunting outside the Eclipse Help system. At least I've found what I wanted.
Back to the original problem... installing 121 out of 122 Europa features and watching as my Eclipse install crashes and burns on the first startup. Not cool. Second startup is better, but has problems on shutdown. Third time's the charm, apparently.
This whole experience brings to mind five, no, three questions, which I'll pose here and cross-post to the cross-project-issues-dev list too.
- Should the Buckminster SVN support be contributed to Europa, or should it ONLY be on Buckmister's own Discovery or Update site, in order to avoid a config problem right out of the box? I'd suggest it should not be in Europa because of the negative perception it might cause both Europa overall and Buckminster in particular. It portrays two issues: (i) the full suite (122 features) doesn't work 100% out of the box, and (if you'll forgive the rather damning phrase), (ii) "it's all Buckminster's fault". I don't mean to offend the good folks on the Buckminster team, only to suggest what *some* might say, and how to avoid that perception from ever being voiced anywhere but this rant. ;-)
- Since those who want SVN support need to add another Update site anyway (or install SVN features manually some other way), is it so onerous to ask those people to jump thru one extra hoop and remove the hoop from everyone else who doesn't need/want SVN?
- Who in their right mind will need to install 121 features (451M) on day one of their Europa experience? I, for example, only really need about 75M of features on a regular basis (EMF, XSD, Mylyn, phpeclipse, PDE, JDT, CVS) on top of the base 40M platform (68M unpacked).
I agree with Michael Scharf (who, incidentally, was the only person who could follow instructions) that Eclipse can be compared to ketchup in that it's:
[U]sed everywhere. It often does not fit. ... It comes in massive amounts (like the 18 million lines of code of the Europa release). It's often hard not to use it.
But that said, I don't think installing Europa should be harder than banging on the bottle to shake the last dregs of ketchup down the neck and onto my fries. It's hard *not* to use Eclipse, true, but should it be this hard to *use* it too?
Ye gods. As of last week, my little release engineering world is responsible for a total of 13 builds, with two more on the way. Time to crank up a little APC and have a quick look back...
And there's so much still to do! No wonder I'm so tired these days...
With mere weeks to go before Europa, and inspired by Kevin's comments in bug 192180, I'd like to post a question of the Eclipse community at large.
Q: If Eclipse was a condiment, which one would it be, and why? | |
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Some ideas:
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Contact:: Nick Boldt:: Toronto + Halifax, Canada Productization, Containers & Operators:: Red Hat CodeReady Workspaces |
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