Dr. Strangechannel Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love IRC

An excerpt of today's #eclipse channel log, showing three things:

1. PDT is hard to install for newbies, especially considering how their website is misleading
2. some people would rather rant than file a bug
3. life is surreal sometimes
4. UPDATE: apparently, this isn't DarthJesus' first appearance

(16:25:52) DarthJesus [n=Godsmith@unaffiliated/jargon] entered the room.
(16:26:12) DarthJesus: how do i change from java to php in eclipse?
(16:26:26) DarthJesus: it took me 17 hours to figure that out last time
(16:27:10) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: define "change from java to php"
(16:27:40) DarthJesus: if eclipse no longer does php i am boycotting your damn product that took 
8 hours to download and used precious hdd space
(16:28:01) rcjsuen: I never implied it did or no longer did php, I am merely asking for further 
clarification.
(16:28:14) DarthJesus: i want to make a php workspace
(16:28:17) rcjsuen: You are welcome to boycott Eclipse though, we won't stop you.
(16:28:25) DarthJesus: it defaults as java
(16:28:25) rcjsuen: So basically you want PHP capabilities.
(16:28:49) d_a_carver: DarthJesus: Windows -> Open Perspective -> PHP
(16:28:57) rcjsuen: So ask yourself, how would I add PHP capabilities to Eclipse?
(16:29:01) rcjsuen: ~g eclipse php
(16:29:01) KOS-MOS: Try googling - http://google.com/search?q=eclipse+php
(16:29:04) rcjsuen: Would be a good start
(16:29:07) d_a_carver: Windows -> Open Perspective -> Other -> PHP actually
(16:29:20) DarthJesus: there is no php perspective
(16:29:39) d_a_carver: DarthJesus: Did you download and install the PDT plugins.
(16:29:39) DarthJesus: you wasted 8 hours of my life
(16:29:49) nickboldt: DarthJesus: if you've got JDK 5.0 + Eclipse 3.3 + PDT 1.0, you get all you 
need for php dev
(16:29:56) nickboldt: ~wiki PDT/FAQ
(16:29:56) KOS-MOS: Check out this wiki article - http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/PDT/FAQ
(16:30:13) DarthJesus: i dont have that much hdd space
(16:30:15) rcjsuen: Surely you were doing something else when you waited 8 hours for Eclipse to
download.
(16:30:36) DarthJesus: i was staring at the screen wishing i was home with my niece and nephew
(16:30:38) rcjsuen: phpeclipse might be smaller as a plug-in
(16:30:46) rcjsuen: Since that has less deps than PDT
(16:31:03) nickboldt: the PDT all-in-one install is 140M; add a JDK for about 60-80M and you're 
done
(16:31:05) DarthJesus: i dont want ANY  of the java crap
(16:31:07) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: In that case shouldn't you have done some research prior to 
downloading it?
(16:32:03) nickboldt: yes, phpeclipse is 60-80M (JDK) + eclipse (40-50M) + 15M (phpeclipse)
(16:32:06) DarthJesus: i just hit download eclipse prior known as php ide
(16:32:18) DarthJesus: you have falsified info in your download page
(16:32:20) rcjsuen: prior known as php ide?
(16:32:27) DarthJesus: yes says so on site
(16:32:31) DarthJesus: on download page
(16:32:33) rcjsuen: Please provide a link.
(16:32:35) nickboldt: DarthJesus: what URL, please
(16:32:38) rcjsuen: So we ca nverify this
(16:32:44) rcjsuen: And talk to the necessary personnel to correct it
(16:32:46) rcjsuen: if we made such a claim
(16:33:00) rcjsuen: on eclipse.org itself, we claim "Eclipse is an open source community whose
projects are focused on building an open development platform comprised of extensible frameworks,
tools and runtimes for building, deploying and managing software across the lifecycle. A large 
and vibrant ecosystem of major technology vendors, innovative start-ups, universities, research 
institutions and individuals extend, complement and support the Eclipse platform."
(16:33:07) rcjsuen: which actually has no mention of Java or PHP
(16:33:24) DarthJesus: http://download.eclipse.org/tools/pdt/downloads/
(16:33:35) DarthJesus: downloads from the pdt former phpide
(16:33:48) rcjsuen: so what then
(16:33:50) rcjsuen: did you click on?
(16:33:50) DarthJesus: nowhere does it say that they arent fractions of the deal
(16:34:10) DarthJesus: no does it say they are fractions of phpide
(16:34:14) DarthJesus: nor*
(16:34:20) DarthJesus: its misleading
(16:34:20) nickboldt: ~bug207098
(16:34:21) KOS-MOS: Bug 207098 - Downloads page claims Eclipse ships w/ a JRE when this is 
patently untrue - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=207098
(16:34:22) rcjsuen: so from that link what did you click next
(16:34:33) DarthJesus: your wording wasted 8 hours of my life
(16:34:36) rcjsuen:   R20070917?
(16:34:39) DarthJesus: and much hdd space
(16:34:40) nickboldt: DarthJesus: please post your comments in that bug so the PDT people will 
fix the error
(16:34:50) rcjsuen: you just went to the page, then what happened
(16:35:22) DarthJesus: downloads from the PDT (former PHP IDE) project
(16:35:28) rcjsuen: and then?
(16:35:29) DarthJesus: big fat lie
(16:35:39) nickboldt: DarthJesus: did you download the 'all in one' ?
(16:35:40) d_a_carver: Which link did you click, DarthJesus from that page.
(16:35:45) nickboldt: it's only 120M
(16:35:45) rcjsuen: Which link did you click on
(16:35:50) rcjsuen: what happened next
(16:35:53) rcjsuen: you read "PHP IDE" and went "okay i want this"
(16:35:55) rcjsuen: then what happened
(16:35:59) DarthJesus: it should say in big blazing letters if you want php ide download all in 
one
(16:36:05) nickboldt: hehe
(16:36:15) rcjsuen: So what you did was download Eclipse Classic?
(16:36:18) nickboldt: http://wiki.eclipse.org/PDT/FAQ#Installation
(16:36:25) DarthJesus: who the hell uses eclipse for java?
(16:36:28) DarthJesus: o.o
(16:36:32) nickboldt: I've been asking the PDT folks to improve their documentation 
(16:36:32) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: Could you please just answer the question?
(16:36:39) nickboldt: but sadly the best I can do is update the wiki
(16:36:48) d_a_carver: DarthJesus: There are many developers that do work both in Java and PHP.
(16:36:59) DarthJesus: 1.0 Stable Build   S20070910-RC1   2007-09-11 03:30:52 -0400
(16:37:11) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: Assuming you weren't being sarcastic, Eclipse is written in 
Java, so we use Eclipse to write Eclipse, so yes, we use Eclipse for Java.
(16:37:16) DarthJesus: i used the open source whatever mirror
(16:37:23) rcjsuen: okay, so yo uwent to 
http://download.eclipse.org/tools/pdt/downloads/?release=S20070910-RC1
(16:37:28) rcjsuen: then what hapepend
(16:37:43) rcjsuen: Which link did you click on next?
(16:38:03) rcjsuen: There is a Requirements section that details what you need although per 207098 it doesn't include a JRE.
(16:38:06) rcjsuen: there is also "PDT All-in-One package includes the complete set of software 
to start using PDT immediately. This package already has PDT combined with the complete set of 
prerequisites - you will not need anything else."
(16:38:10) DarthJesus: Eclipse SDK v3.3 version used in this build is here: Linux -->Windows<-- Mac OS X.
(16:38:24) rcjsuen: okay, so you downloaded that, extracted/what-not
(16:38:26) nickboldt: ah, so you started dl'ing all the prereqs
(16:38:28) rcjsuen: and now you want PHP capabilities?
(16:38:39) DarthJesus: i only want phpide
(16:38:45) DarthJesus: i dont give a damn about java
(16:38:48) rcjsuen: But I guess you missed the all-in-one section
(16:38:51) rcjsuen: while reading down the page
(16:38:55) nickboldt: DarthJesus:  
http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/download.php?file=/tools/pdt/downloads/drops/R20070917/all-in-one/pdt-all-in-one-1.0-R20070917-win32.zip
(16:38:58) rcjsuen: but instead jumped straight to the requirements one-by-one
(16:39:03) DarthJesus: i clicked top link on every page
(16:39:11) nickboldt: get that. install that. install a JDK (you need it to run Eclipse). voom, 
done
(16:39:14) rcjsuen: That's certainly fair. I may have done that myself.
(16:39:20) DarthJesus: all in one should be top link on every page
(16:39:25) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: File a bug and tell them
(16:39:39) nickboldt: or add your comments into bug 207098
(16:39:44) rcjsuen: both would be nice
(16:39:54) nickboldt: they need to be told how painfully unusable their site is
(16:40:00) rcjsuen: but you should file a bug for your suggestion
(16:40:03) rcjsuen: because that's what affected YOU
(16:40:10) nickboldt: (which is funny cuz PHP is more often used for web, so you'd think...) ;-)
(16:40:10) DarthJesus: btw use goddamn deflate64 or lzwa or whatever like a normal person
(16:40:15) DarthJesus: .zip is OLD
(16:40:25) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: If  you  have a problem with that, file a bug too.
(16:40:59) DarthJesus: i took atleast 30x longer to download than it should had were it properly 
compressed
(16:41:18) nickboldt: DarthJesus: ranting at us won't help. file a bug and tell the PDT folks
(16:41:21) d_a_carver: Anybody know if the PDT folks are going to be at EclipseCon, we can corner 
them then.
(16:41:26) rcjsuen: Sorry, we're not from the PDT team.
(16:41:29) rcjsuen: neither nickboldt d_a_carver or me
(16:41:37) rcjsuen: you can rant at us but we can't do anything about it
(16:41:46) rcjsuen: and it's just wasting your own time ranting at us
(16:41:49) rcjsuen: you seem strapped for time
(16:41:49) DarthJesus: i can blackmail you :P
(16:41:51) nickboldt: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=pdt&component=Website
(16:41:52) rcjsuen: use it on something that matters
(16:41:56) rcjsuen: filing bugs to _them_
(16:42:02) d_a_carver: We've asked the PDT team to send somebody here, but no takers as of yet.
(16:43:10) DarthJesus: don't use deflate32 to compress the damn downloads, do: put all in one as 
top link on every page
(16:43:45) nickboldt: DarthJesus: don't: bitch at us; do: open a bug. ;-)

...

(16:48:47) ***DarthJesus presses forehard into blank space on laptop
(16:49:09) DarthJesus: your site is total crap
(16:49:15) DarthJesus: i demand it be reworked
(16:49:18) d_a_carver: file a bug
(16:49:28) DarthJesus: its not a bug, its stupidity
(16:49:33) DarthJesus: fire you sys admin
(16:49:57) nickboldt: DarthJesus: it's open source. to "demand" without opening a bug is like 
pissing on your car to make it start
(16:50:23) nickboldt: follow the process and you'll get what you want. 
(16:50:38) DarthJesus: there are 134 people in here
(16:50:47) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: And?
(16:50:55) DarthJesus: i am telling 134 people to get off their butt and fix the site
(16:51:06) mxttie: DarthJesus, you are one of the 134
(16:51:09) rcjsuen: But we don't have access, to that site.
(16:51:11) nickboldt: DarthJesus:none of the people in here are PDT committers
(16:51:18) rcjsuen: nickboldt: At least, we don't think so.
(16:51:19) rcjsuen: ;)
(16:51:25) DarthJesus: then why does this channel exist?
(16:51:27) rcjsuen: mxttie: touche
(16:51:38) rcjsuen: DarthJesus: To help users like you and to help each other.
(16:51:40) d_a_carver: for general eclipse support regardless of project.
(16:51:48) nickboldt: not to whinge about the websites
(16:52:06) rcjsuen: But you do not seem to want to help yourself or help other people that may 
hit the same problem as you tomorrow, for instnace.
(16:52:37) nickboldt: (note it's websites plural -- one per project -- if you (as I've said at 
least three times already) have a problem with the PDT website, open a bug: 
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=pdt&component=Website)
(16:52:59) d_a_carver: by filing the bug reports you will potentially help people that may run 
into the same issue as you, without it, it'll still exist and may never be addressed.
(16:53:01) DarthJesus: ok i will file a bug: use lzwa asshat and put all in one as top link on 
every page or i will blow up the erie canal
(16:53:09) DarthJesus: :P
(16:53:13) rcjsuen: okay, good
(16:53:15) nickboldt: DarthJesus: yeah, that'll certainly be addressed
(16:53:17) rcjsuen: Tell us the bug # when it's been filed.
(16:53:36) rcjsuen: nickboldt: I'll take the benefit of the doubt that DarthJesus is not going 
to write that literally.
(16:53:47) nickboldt: rcjsuen: here's hoping he's being flippant
(16:54:18) d_a_carver: at least DarthJesus if you create the bug, we can monitor it and ping them
on the issue every once in a while.
(16:54:23) rcjsuen: not 'take', gah, bad grammar
(16:54:41) d_a_carver: Anybody cruise the PDT newgroups to see how responsive they are there?
(16:55:06) rcjsuen: d_a_carver: Not me.
(16:55:46) DarthJesus: i've blown up a canal before x.x
(16:56:58) DarthJesus: just get a big enough sodium brick and enough gallons of kerosine and drop
it from a plane
(16:57:58) Zerone: ah rcjsuen :)
(16:59:06) d_a_carver: rcjsuen: looks like they have one guy that is pretty active.  I may drop a
note about a couple of bugs in that newsgroup to hopefully get some action going.
(16:59:13) DarthJesus left the room (quit: Nick collision from services.).
(16:59:21) DarthJesus [n=Godsmith@ip68-99-90-88.ph.ph.cox.net] entered the room.
(17:00:03) DarthJesus: i am agent palmer with the fbi
(17:00:24) DarthJesus: do not associate with the man you have been speaking to under this screen 
name
(17:00:27) DarthJesus: he is flippant
(17:00:37) DarthJesus: crimnally flippant
(17:02:43) DarthJesus: when invited to our office for a job interview he put cappucino mix in our 
water dispenser and mircodots in our tea kettles
(17:03:10) DarthJesus: why does the fbi need tea kettles?
(17:03:17) DarthJesus: ...wouldn't you like to know...
(17:03:30) nickboldt: DarthJesus: perhaps to make tea?
(17:03:41) DarthJesus: ABORT ABORT
(17:03:51) DarthJesus left the room (quit: Client Quit).

...

(17:12:57) DarthJesus [n=Godsmith@unaffiliated/jargon] entered the room.
(17:13:19) DarthJesus: ok who was calling me on the phone?
(17:13:47) ***DarthJesus glares
(17:16:06) DarthJesus: it was some sort of satanic loud annoying beep noise
(17:16:35) DarthJesus: i simply said 'i dont do ctty' and hung up
(17:21:30) ***DarthJesus pases out ..... dart in neck... gak